Getting tenure at a r1. I know of other R2's .

Getting tenure at a r1 So, I assume tenure meant I would always have a position, but might not always have a paid position. The university makes a big deal of celebrating all of the newly tenured faculty. The idea of being a prof at a Getting denied tenure is somewhat rare, 1 so it’s extremely embarrassing both professionally and personally. Failing to achieve tenure, and therefore losing your job, is—if not a catastrophe—a significant hardship. Academic freedom is still not a guarantee, but tenure will provide a buffer against getting fired for things that are not the faculty member's fault. The 50 teaching is 2-2 (semester system). 135 votes, 174 comments. You can certainly get a TT position and even successfully get tenure elsewhere, if you're denied tenure elsewhere. I totally over-deliver, not because I want to get an R1 job necessarily, but because as you said, I just sort of want to cover my bases. I was told basically that at LSU, like other R1 institutions I was expected to publish at least two papers a year in quality journals, get a grant of a sum that should be In the detail, I am at a modest R1 in STEM. Less so about teaching experience. 5% Or really just any advice or wisdom folks would like to impart. Is it easier to switch jobs before tenure rather than after? Does switching TT jobs increase the It's just that academia in an R1 specifically is particularly difficult. Now I'm thinking it might be a smart option, but only if we also create a post-tenure review process to minimize the risk of tenured folks dumping service and advising on NTT folks. Is it also the case for accounting? At an R2-R1 institution, especially in a STEM discipline, those teaching ~7-8 courses per year and doing no research are likely non-tenure-track and are paid ~1/2 what research-active tenure-track/tenured faculty members make while teaching ~2-3 courses per year. But they don’t make tenure. (R1 and Major City) that are teeny tiny hoops most assistant professors prefer to get tenured elsewhere first in a R1 university before applying to Harvard. Unless your field is ultra specific, multiple substantive, journals and book chapters were considered missing. I've always maintained that I want a tenure-track position at an R1. They've already offered 2-0 for first year and 3-0 for after that. The only experience I had with this was someone in our department getting denied tenure when I was first starting. As I settle into my second year on the tenure track at Alfred University, a SLAC in Upstate New York, far from my R1 alma mater in Florida, I am learning that my specializations in gender, sexuality, and medicine do matter, but many other skills and responsibilities comprise my professional life as well. It took each of us two years to normalize. It was open rank, but we ended up hiring an assistant. Do they mean that getting a tenure-track job with a high salary and good startup funds at a reputable R1 university is Recently worked a case where a woman sued over not getting tenure, to a female (mother) dean school, on basis of gender, but I can confirm, more than 2. My tenure case was a “slam dunk” in the words of my chair (at a demanding R1) and my annual reviews were always stellar. The rumor/thinking is that it's to put off the pay bump for one more year. To get a good and supportive advisor. How hard is it to attain a tenure track position as a social sciences or humanities professor at a R1 university in a major city? right field at the right time. If you want to solely teach after PhD, it will likely NOT be a tenured position. That paid off well for me. I recommend you look at the stats on how many people end up getting tenure track offers. Reply For me in particular, I've for the most part given up on the prospect of getting tenure-track. Nearly every professor at an R1 university came from working at an R2 (or doctorate-conferring or liberal arts) university. Not all TT jobs are the same and not all NTT jobs are the same. But I think that complaining and making your life a bit hellish seems to be part of the culture of the job, but not really Post-tenure people have less anxiety, and there's a natural transition into leadership once you're associate. 1. It depends on too many factors: the profile and budgetary situation of your institution and your spouse's prospective department; department politics; whether department heads will want someone that matches your spouse's profile. I don't think that the latter is a good reason for making major life I am wrapping up my third year at an R1 institution studying psychology, and will soon be on the job market before I know it. Plus it’s only “tenure-track” it isn’t even guaranteed. But, I did make a choice after getting tenure to be more selective about whether or not I should 21 votes, 37 comments. He also managed to land a tenure-track job at a research university. :D The pay at the R3 is not as good as at an R1, but several years I could pay summer salary from my grants which was a big boost. I tried to get an academic faculty position in the US, but was unsuccessful. Graduate a PhD student. First off, congratulations on getting the interview—that's the most difficult step. There's a reason to mentor new faculty, so relationships get built. 34 . (R1) brought in a candidate who had tenure at her old institution but we didn Brown explained that receiving tenure at a university with the highest level of research activity, an R1 university, such as UW-Madison, is only achievable by proving you’re a productive researcher. I did have a good CV, but I was also lucky . Presuming my research is excellent, poor teaching could result in not getting tenure -- however I would still get tenure with average teaching. 2/9th Summer support for 6 years. New faculty from graduate programs in R1 I have a friend who has tenure at a R1 school, but have to move to another city because of family reason. Similar stories abound at MIT. My tenure was voted by the University trustees. A SLAC is strong teaching and service followed by research. (Gaining admissions to Harvard UG etc is a different story with 5 min read. There are probably exceptions, but TBH basically everyone on the faculty even at my liberal arts college has Ph. If you've been in ultra-elites for PhD and postdoc, and are applying to places on the fringes of R1, you need to convince the committee you will be successful there. We are in a college town and there aren’t that many opportunities in the immediate vicinity outside our institution - especially academic ones. When you come up for tenure, the prevailing emotion is one of worry. I left a tenured position at a med school for a tenured position at an undergrad R1. In the U. I know this I've heard that at some R1's, tenure standards are fairly clear: that the expectation is something like one publication in a highly-ranked journal per year (so, something like 6 highly-ranked publications when coming up for tenure). Let's just take the risk, and if they don't work out they won't get tenure. Over time, you will start to have a different perspective. I've kept up with them and they all ended up getting tenure at their new universities. I have a good profile publication-wise (journal and conference) but I don't really have any experience writing proposals or securing grants. Its your research that is going to get you the job. For those of you who tried to get a tenure-track job and It's a junior faculty job. My colleagues do great work and many are movers and shakers in their areas, but my understanding is that tenure denials at my university are relatively rare. Ironically, it's not that mathematicians truly need money to "do research", since we don't need labs or equipment, really, nor "research assistants" to wash test tubes or do field work. Keith 12 years ago When I do that math, it appears that applicants to your job – a fairly typical tenure-track position at a respectable but not prestigious non-research state university with a full-time teaching load – have about a 0. S. So tenure-track jobs at these schools might be better thought of as very prestigious postdoctoral positions. Of course, there are job candidates who had even more papers than I did, including multiple ones in top journals I got a positive vote from my department, that was good. tl;dr I chose TT and to forge a collaboration with my local R1. R1 is a broad spectrum. However one thing to understand is that teaching track jobs pay significantly less than tenure track jobs. Ask me (almost) anything! in life, interviewing and prioritizing. D. On the other hand, you can have tremendous flexibility with your time, which helps a lot with work-life balance. So in order to be a competitive enough candidate for tenure-track jobs in Statistics at an R1 or R2 research university, I would say that this is a good benchmark. Avoid anything that could derail you (like family getting sick, you getting sick, WWIII). The R2 I started at had a higher teaching load on paper, and class sizes were larger. By all accounts, the only obligation to be on campus is for a monthly department meeting. It happens all the time. Tenure is designed to permit freer expression and exploration of ideas in both the lab/office and also with Both bolted for R1 departments as soon as the opportunity presented itself. Most people in my graduate program don't seem to be worried about it, and the professors all tell me that i'm being unrealistic by thinking the chances are exceedingly small (I posted a thread about this recently). And, among R1 CS faculty, it's probably slightly more common to do a postdoc after securing a faculty position and deferring it for a year than to do a postdoc before getting a position. I think this is too strongly put. But at places that hire for research there's a lot more movement than one might imagine. Is this something new in academia? When I was an undergrad, I had a professor explain the tenure That's not something that's really respected at R1 schools, but I can live with it. I don't have the entire faculty set of CVs memorized, but I've been on a Hi, I am nearing the end of my PhD and am looking for Tenure-track Assistant Professor positions at R1 universities. If you're getting interviews, your age is not causing you issues clearing from resume pile to on-campus. I enjoy research, but For a tenure track position, I'd bet money that if you are 60, you'll never get an offer (though you might get visiting professorship offers). I’ve heard a lot how it’s extremely difficult to obtain a tenure-track position and how you have to really stand out in order to even have a shot, and it’s making me doubt whether I really have what it takes to succeed in this field. I have debated my post-PhD goals, and ultimately set my sights on a tenure-track position at a liberal arts college. There is a risk with the enrollment. But the R1 I'm at now has a PhD program so teaching/ advising duties outside of regular load are greater. And, you might even enjoy more job security. I applied to eight jobs this year, most of which were junior, some open rank. I know of other R2's I think people commonly associate tenure track with R1 institutions which can be really hardcore with their standards and expectations. So as devastating as it is it is seldom shocking. And then, as this post explains, work BACKWARDS from But in all four of my departments on two public R1 campuses, this is what it looked like: Late Spring of candidate’s year 5, the Head calls you into the office to tell you your tenure process is starting. Publish at least 4 or 5 reasonable quality journal papers. Speaking as a faculty member at an R1 university, I have been on both sides of the table. Plus if you They may rely only on selected internal reviewers. My classmates at my public R1 where I went to college were academically poorly prepared, not always serious, but interesting and humble (and there were many of us). Many of these institutions share a focus on teaching and mentoring, though there exists even among SLACs a diverse set of expectations I'm tenure-track at a regional public institution, but I came from an R1 environment. This should be taught by an ombudsman or someone who does not have stock in you getting an R1 job. STEM in R2 (with aspirations of reattaining R1) — the tenure requirements are straightforward in terms of journal papers/quality, funding, and teaching. In Brown’s field of humanities, this is done by publishing at least one book through a major university press and showing expertise in multiple If all that matters to you is getting a tenure-track position in your subfield, in anthropology, at an R1 school, you're going to have a very difficult time. And as an added bonus I can tell you that there was never an issue getting parking in the faculty lot at 9am. I taught at an R1 for several years then realized how much room I had for improvement after taking an ID course Have a clear plan for getting funding. Teaching-focused faculty teach up to 4-4 (though often that includes multiple Getting tenure track positions at universities is almost all about how much funding you get and your publications. Many such faculty don't do a postdoc at all, although in general Yes, probably the "mode" or most likely scenario, across all academic disciplines and all institution types (R1, R2, etc), is that you'll get tenure at the place you started. At an R1 in Canada on a search committee: we got at around 8-10 applicants in TT positions (some research, some teaching) out of about 150 total applicants; of the 4 finalists, 2 were in TT jobs (both research). The pressure to publish papers and get grants never goes away, if for no other reason than that your salary depends on these things. It is extremely unlikely they would have the necessary research record. Depends on the dept, some things beyond just teaching load and tenure requirements, and whether they're "aspirational". We want to see evidence you can do what you'll need to do to get tenure. Depending on your field and interests, maybe consider teaching I'm at a pretty fancy R1, and there's nothing like this. That's not a bad thing, but it's just not an attitude that's going to get you tenure at a solid research-based university (R1 or R2). However, over the past few months, I have taken courses and workshops covering proposal Me: at R1 in US, currently Associate Professor and have chaired tenure committees for faculty going up for promotion In general, the focus in your tenure package is on your productivity since you began as an assistant professor. By the way, we received around 200 applications for 1 position. Tenure-track position in a teaching University: Offered at the associate level; Very small town, small University; 3/3 teaching load; Relatively good benefits/support but not a huge amount of research support provided; Non-tenure track teaching position in R1: Very reputable, large University; Offered a teaching assistant professor; 4/4 Speaking as a tenured R1 professor, I can say that the work-life balance is what you make it. I've been getting better at it, but there's no way to get around the fact that writing lectures, especially, is really time consuming. Your job is to follow up on that meeting with an email that clarifies everything that you discussed, in writing. Getting tenure isn't hard, getting a tenure track job is hard. So far, the job's been pretty dominated by prep for my courses. Neither will make any serious impact on the world in any way. s in most fields In our newest "how can we help you?" thread, a reader writes:I am an assistant professor at an R1 university, preparing to come up for tenure. . So much trolling in this thread. True, to some extent. 31 thoughts on “ Less valid complaints about not getting a tenure-track faculty position ” Kevin T. Moreover, given the role that outside letters play, there couldn't be. I Especially at smaller or less research focused schools, getting tenure is a often a jumping off point for someone to apply to larger/R1 schools (assuming they want a research-focused academic career). If you are successful at an R1 right now (which you are) you should be looking to stay at R1 level. Bring in grant funding consistently. , in math, at my R1 university, a tenure-track person who does not have an NSF grant will have a hard time getting tenure, currently. Three years out, honestly judge whether you are a star in the making. Next, you need to convince the faculty that they want to hire you more than the four or five other people that have also been invited to interview. The position at the 2-year college has a better title and as mentioned it is tenure-track, and so it has a lot more upward mobility - Some institutions are now to have revolving-door assistant professorships, with only one out of 10 getting tenure. My main job is to get research funding , pay my PhD students and publish papers. At the med school, I was expected to cover 70% of my salary off grants. Went to an R1 teaching track position. And while one can make predictions about what letter writers will say, given how much and where you've What might not be realistic is getting a tenure track job where your responsibilities are flipped so a job that is 70% research 30% teaching. 90k is spectacularly beyond decent for a non tenure track position; we don't pay our tenure-track hires quite that much and I'm at an R1. One of the ways that 2019), as well as challenges related to getting tenure during the pandemic (Carney, 2021 In my R1 business school (3-0 load with research expectation of 1 top hit per year), there are tenure track faculty who maintain a good balance. Since we are a small CC and hire almost exclusively from the R1 and the regional colleges just up the road we had never dealt with that kind of thing. Like everyone says, the middle part of the tenure journey is service-heavy. Despite not having tenure, I have more job security. You need to get details. A teaching track job might pay 100-150k while a tenure track job will pay double that. PUI went to a tenured professor transferring from an R1. Getting tenure typically requires that you are well cited, well known, and have obtained a decent amount of funding, and developing these things is time consuming and it is much easier if you are doing research on easy-mode. She got a job at a non-R1 school and even then they would not give her tenure right away. On the other hand, at an R2, teaching matters a lot more, so if you're a phenomenal teacher but If you get tenure in a very low ranked university, it's very difficult to move up a lot with tenure, for instance. Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 5:00. Now I’m not aiming to become world famous or work at MIT or anything. Obviously more is demanded in those reviews than 20 or more years ago in the US. But the arguments were also on quality. let alone getting tenure. At my private R1 tenure requirements are set at the departmental level, and all departmental colleagues with My experience (moving from a SLAC to a public teaching-focused university) was a bit different. When you get hired, everyone can afford to be optimistic; you are an experiment and you might just hit paydirt. How important is your PhD advisor being a strong support towards the tenure track application? What are the key aspects or pointers to consider in the research statement? Is doing a post-doc and PhD from reputed schools like MIT, Harvard, Stanford, etc, matter? This post is written from the perspective of an R1 book field, so please get your own tenure expectations in writing from your department head as soon as you can. What are the odds of students actually getting tenure track jobs? And, as a professor, how do you support your doctoral students who don't want to go the tenure track route? Reply reply So a R1 will look for strong research followed by good teaching and service. Getting one in the Covid-era may be impossible. Your job is to schedule a meeting with your Head and find out the expectations for tenure. To constantly succeed, one needs to be super smart and putting in 60 hours I've heard of the difficulty of getting tenure-track professorships at R1 institutions, but I am curious about the competition at national labs (staff positions). However, if you're open to more interdisciplinary positions, or willing to try and find some sort of teaching position at other great schools, then you will have many options. I collaborate with faculty from R1 universities. Hello! I’m a current college freshman with hopes to eventually become a professor. 2% success rate, so about 247 professors are tenured per year. While they are at Personally, I don’t see the attractiveness of getting Tenure at a non-R1 institution in the US. If you're a phenomenal teacher but not a great researcher, you're quite unlikely to get tenure (but if you're a phenomenal researcher and an average teacher, you will likely get tenure at an R1). But due to pandemic salary cuts I've only spent one full year at the full salary I was offered. I know that getting a tenure track job in STEM or liberal arts is basically impossible due to how competitive it is. I think you’d be mad to take it to be honest. Smaller schools that are R2 will be somewhere between 150 to 175k. There was not enough money to cover shortfalls. The story at my university (big public R1, but admits most applicants, US) - warning, not for the faint of heart: If you don't get an R1 tenure-track job, and relatively few do, a lack of teaching experience will be a serious hindrance in getting a job at a less research-active institution. The only person I’ve heard of being denied tenure was literally not showing up to teach, and received tons of warnings before the tenure denial. I was a tenured professor at a SLAC and am now a teaching professor at an R1. papers accepted for publication) before the start of the contract at the new place did not 'count' for tenure, even if they were actually published while affiliated with the new place. Lucky to be in a great PhD program, with great academic/financial support from the university; an awesome supervisor, etc. I was able to leverage more time/resources for self-directed research interests because the school was now more invested in my scholarly output. To meet these high standards, junior faculty should begin planning for a strong tenure case from their first day on At research-intensive universities in the United States, eligible faculty must generally excel in research, teaching and service in order to receive tenure. So here is my attempt at giving some suggestions on how to make the most out of your years on the tenure track. Although teaching-focused NTT faculty at R1s have historically been paid something awful and had lower status at the institution, there are a good number of places where salaries are similar, you are a voting faculty member, but your job responsibility does not have the same Hi all, How would you compare a tenure track position at a good public R1 in the US (but not top of the line in my field) to a group leader position From starting college to getting tenure it's often something like a 20-year effort. colleges and universities overall had tenure. At an R1, it is RESEARCH, then teaching and service as distant second and third. student at a top R1, i'm only really exposed to success stories of people getting tenure-track jobs. To meet these high standards, junior Here's the rank order real secrets to getting tenure at an R1, imho: Don't be an asshole. I am coming from the west coast. We are required to come up with a list of 12 references, all of which, (1) are experts in our own field of research, (2) are full professors (not just tenured), (3) work at R1 universities. 73%. Every friend I have at an R1 or R2 institution on the tenure track seems extremely stressed and like every part of their lives is suffering for their career. In the US there are hundreds of teaching only universities and colleges, compared to the few ~150 "R1" universities that have the resources to do world level research and the ~20 Ivy league or similar truly world class places. CS isn't yet at the "postdoc is required for R1 TT jobs" stage. Be at least OK at teaching and having students appreciate you. And likewise, some campuses may have a 5, 7 or a 9 year tenure timeline (instead of the more typical 6), while for some individuals your timeline may be shorter because The new Dean wanted me out because I was a threat to him. Personally, I turned down an R1 PhD offer in favor of an R2 for lifestyle reasons, and I’m now tenure track faculty at an R1. ” There really isn’t much professional difference between a tenured prof the 40th best school in the country and a tenured prof at some place nobody has ever heard of. So what did the university expect from me pre-tenure. The Lecture-line is not tenure-track but it is renewable, there's a union and the Lecturers tend to stay there for a long time. I'm at a big state school R1 and in my department 3 of the last 4 applicants for tenure we denied at the department level. The faculty not getting tenure is given some time and reasonable hints that she will not receive tenure. I’m a full tenured professor in engineering at an R1. I'm a tenured professor at a big, state flagship R1 school. It’s definitely it typical when I look around at my colleagues’ PhD institutions but it can happen (n = 1). At a small SLAC, it might be TEACHING, then service and research, but still a book or articles required for tenure. I am friends with many of my colleagues that were on the same tenure-track timeline as me, both within my department and across the university. In short, any research that had been completed (e. “An analysis of 106 tenure-track positions at the University of Southern California revealed a promotion gap. At the state flagship R1, my record would have been just okay. Obviously, double that is a common target, but if secrets 1-4 are I've heard of someone not getting tenure because their evals were consistently bad and they ignored yearly feedback that would have fixed it, but I've never heard of someone's tenure getting torpedoed by a few malicious comments, no. I am a tenured Associate Professor at an R1 university in the US, where I have been for 8 years. Getting a spousal hire offer is difficult at the best of times. The first and foremost of this is conduct outstanding research to the exclusion of almost everything I have been on tenure track in an R2 institution for the last 5 years in an Engineering department. Fortunately, I landed a permanent position right before corona, but to put it in perspective I had 1) 13 first authorships in moderate to high impact journals 2) 4 years of postdoc experience at two top 10 Bear in mind that 5 of the 6 tenure-track offers happened after I had been a tenure-track prof for 4 years, so my CV was much better by then. My sense is that some people are just against early tenure, and it has nothing to do with the There is plenty of excellent advice online about how to get tenure at R1 research schools. Here's the rank order real secrets to getting tenure at an R1, imho: Don't be an asshole. If I took them at face value, I would definitely change gears. – Nate Eldredge. My friend's R2 requires 2 pubs per year - quality doesn't really matter. Given the state of the academic job market (it’s not as though tenure-line positions are easy to come by), and how much In many cases, and particularly for R1 schools, that focus may be research. (tomorrow, I think, with an In that respect it's different from tenure at a US R1, where people will often be judging on the quality. I doubt an R1 would hire someone from a SLAC to a tenure track position. But of course if you're not getting tenure at a university, chances are you're not thrilled with the place and have zero desire to stay on in any capacity. In sociology you will not get tenure at an R1 if h-index is below 10. Economist 70e8. Again in R1 universities too it depends. In both Getting tenure here is really easy. My TT job wasn't at an R1 - it was at an R2 without a graduate program - but I moved to an R1 with a PhD program in my tenure year, so I guess my output was at least enough to get tenure at at least some R1s. I just want to be a tenure-track professor at an R1 university in an interesting city, where I can make enough money to support a family with a middle class lifestyle. I wouldn't say I have slowed down my research. There are however a plethora of other jobs, such as teaching at the community college level, high schools, working for libraries, archives, policy groups, think tanks, Left TT job at R2 in midwest year before I was to apply for tenure even though I was assured of getting tenure. There are tenured faculty who maintain a balance. Between 1998 and 2012, 92% of white male faculty were awarded tenure, while the same was true of only 55% of women and minority faculty. Tenure-track professors convert into tenured professors at a 64. I love everything about my PUI except the salary. But bear in mind the gross oversupply of Ph. But I am utterly exhausted. Let's assume I am not going to get tenure - a good assumption given my record. Reply reply professorbix • Leaving one university to go to another is common. A fresh PhD has a good shot at a fellowship or a lecturer position at an R1, but almost never a tenure-track or even non-tenure-track professor position. From my perspective if you like teaching, you will have more respect at the cc. Failing to get tenure at one of those places is not seen as particularly damning. A decent travel budget yearly, and a very generous seed fund. Meanwhile, there were 501 vacancies for tenure-track professors, of which 384 filled (page 36). AND I was lucky to get the jobs, of We're an R1. How competitive are they? I have just started grad school at an ivy league, for reference. Never seen or heard of anyone being denied tenure for a lack of service or poor teaching (at an R1) -- this is why good mentors will tell you to do as little service as possible (because it has zero bearing on tenure) and do "just enough" for teaching -- to maximize the amount of time devoted to research output. Teaching can be valued at R1 schools, and the cynical advice to "give up TAing In about nine months or so, I will start the job search. Despite my preference for a research-heavy focus over a teaching-heavy one, I took the Two years after getting tenure and promotion, I was made department chair. Preferring to be at a SLAC or in a particular area of the country over your present R1 are not problems, but applying to a less prestigious institution when you are getting close to coming up for tenure may make people wary that you're a high conflict individual. Reply reply Earning tenure at an R1 is very different than non-R1s. Is it worth to accept the offer, and again try from the UK to get a faculty position in the US? In the 2022-2023 academic year, 2105 doctorates were awarded (page 2). The chair couldn't stand this person, but the reasons were mainly personal as I observed this Some of them are not very intellectually engaged. My starting salary was actually a bit more than I made as a postdoc (couldn't really be lower -- my field is bottom of the barrel for postdoc pay). All of the responsibilities with almost no power and perpetually having someone in the department who is mad at you and sometimes everyone in the department is mad at you. I am a postdoc in a US university (Rank A, edit: R1). Between the committee meetings, the dissertation and candidacy committees, the faculty meetings, and the relentless pressure to publish, get grants, and be a rockstar in your field, it can be too much sometimes. Of course I teach and do service but those are secondary. I've been told I over-deliver, I've been told to calm down a bit because I'll burn myself out, and I'm burning myself out. In this day and age, it could actually be better. I'm tenured, but my partner's position is non-tenure track. Research is typically ≥50% of the job expectation. To meet these high standards, junior faculty should begin planning for a strong tenure case from their first day on the job. Also -- what students consider poor teaching (and I doubt the OP is a prof), isn't necessarily poor teaching At an R1 you'd have to be truly atrocious if your research is going well. Tom Werner/DigitalVision Non-elite R1 and we are expected to contribute 50% teaching, 30% research, and 20% service. In a nutshell, what are the advantages/disadvantages of a career as a tenured prof at a PUI? It may be helpful to compare this to some common alternatives, such as R1/2 universities, industry jobs, non-profits, federal jobs, etc. I received offers from both. I am a great teacher (top student scores, full classes, lecture notes used by students in other sections, etc). The h-index is at most equal to your number of publications. I got tenure at a less-competitive state school and I felt this way. Of course getting denied tenure is both abrupt and unsettling. So, I don’t feel depressed I'm a humanities researcher at an R1 university, just a few years into the tenure track. (I guess since now they're pretty sure I'm staying, so strong work doesn't just give me a path to an R1?) 2. I know people who looked to move up in ranking before going up for tenure because otherwise, they could be "stuck" in terms of future opportunities. Working at R1, get Tenure at R2. Getting tenure is an intense research-heavy slog for 6 years, EDIT: To answer the original question, yes, I do know of someone at an R1 STEM department who was denied tenure, but they basically accomplished nothing with their research, and they were downright abusive and inappropriate to students, and they had already gotten some extra time on the tenure clock and leniency due to extenuating circumstances. Reasons include: family closer to R1, husband did not like the cold in the midwest, I really missed my interaction with the UG students, better pay (!), and lovely new colleagues. There's an R1 near me that regularly denies tenure to almost everyone once. g. One was overturned. My current institution is an R1. 1% of professors at U. However, on the tenure track normally, it is teaching/research/service, with the proportion of each one dependent on the kind of school it is. Colleagues fighting for things that didn’t make sense, purposefully stifling people’s agendas, and I couldn’t justify getting 40% of my salary getting taken away in taxes, and not cutting at least 6 figures as Associate Professor while paying 3000 in rent for a one bedroom apartment. " The tenure decision is very different than the hiring decision. But they don’t get increments or promotions. I'm not competitive enough for the other universities where I'd like to go, going to the ones that I've been competitive enough to get an offer from is At my US R1, I was awarded tenure “early”, but I came to the university after ten years in industry and a very strong record of publications and patents even before I started and had the best teaching evaluations in the department and some people still argued that it was too soon. But, now that it's getting closer to actually looking for a job, I'm just not sure. s from R1 programs in their fields for the most part, and in the humanities in particular it's basically all top ten programs. 89 votes, 56 comments. I'd really appreciate some help thinking through this! I'm a couple of years into my first job at a respectable public R1 in the US. I am currently working at a top 100 finance department, but will most likely not get tenure in two years Also what is the cause of you not getting tenure? R2's have wildly different expectations. It's been a great ride. I’m tenured. But getting tenure before you move could be a point of pride as well, so people don't think you left academia because you couldn't make tenure 🤣. I got my PhD at an R1 university, and always was more interested in research than teaching. I'm a PUI Tenured Associate professor in natural sciences with relatively good research record. Jane Junn, “Analysis of Data on Tenure at USC Dornsife” (October 19 I've seen numerous R1 assistant professors in the job market during their 4th or 5th year before their tenure review to look for higher ranked departments. It is basically impossible at Harvard and Stanford but state schools like UIUC or Berkeley have easier tenure paths, even for departments that are at par or better than Harvard/Stanford. Nor is your pub record I’m tenure track. I could try and probably get a teaching position in my department (multi-year I applied to 2 jobs before I had even finished my doctorate: a tenure-track position at small private undergraduate college that prioritizes teaching, and a non-tenure track teaching position at an R1. At most R1's, tenure is decided 90+% on your research. I'm a current PhD candidate at a R1 thinking about what I might want from my career. For NTT positions at the four year university you also have the risk of not getting renewed. If the answer is no, then say “f**k it. Reply reply New tenure-track faculty members at research-intensive (R1 or R2) institutions [ 1] emerge from a competitive, months-long job search process, eager to begin their in- So for large state schools that are R1 institutions (think SEC or Big Ten schools) you are going to start at over 200k. Long-term From my understanding, community college contracts are teaching and service with no research requirements, you have faster tenure process. That is, a big part of getting tenure is having outside letter writers say good things about your research. The below applies to a tenure-track position at an R1 university, where your promotion will largely depend on your research productivity. My husband got tenure at an R1 and he felt this way. I got an offer (lecturer in the UK system) from the UK university (say, Rank B, edit: "new university"). However, comprehensive universities are a little more laid back and teaching focused, but you can still get tenure there. It depends on the field and department. This is different from hiring an assistant professor which you have 6 years to figure out whether to give the person tenure. Have you ever made a decision like this before, and were you able to move to an R1 university? Any insights are appreciated! Thinking about applying to grad school? Trying again after a previous round? Have questions? I am a tenure stream professor in a social science department at a major R1 and sit on admissions and job search committees. However, once I'm 44 years old and a year away from being up for tenure at a US R1 in STEM. SLACs have wildly different views about use of national facilities. Getting tenure hasn’t changed anything for me whatsoever, it’s just a rubber stamp. That's a similar timeframe (~6 years) to your scenario, but I do agree that its not as "inevitable" as finishing up grad school. Computer Science and I was briefly enrolled in an online non-thesis Masters degree in Computer Science at a well-known R1 There's nothing like a half-million dollar grant award being announced the day the provost gets your tenure package. Once you get into that pseudo-administration role it’s a whole different beast. Fairly common to have 50 teaching, 40 research 10 service, but with a slow ramp up in courses taught. What I was objecting to a bit in the UK is the fact that people start (right out of grad school or a few years out) with a basically tenured position (subject I'm at a public R1, pre-tenure, and am thinking about Plan B as I watch my effective income shrink. In the 2018-2019 academic school year, 45. Plus you have to take a pay cut. For tenure, it will likely be less than 10. I got a positive vote from the school committee on promotion and tenure, that was good. standards at this point in time seem to be an average of 2 peer-reviewed publications per year, with slightly average teaching evaluation scores (3 or higher out of 5). (R1) seriously considered people (invited to campus) that were denied at other schools (once another R1, once a highly ranked SLAC). But it’s also a possibility Your apathy towards research really comes through here. Yea, you probably want a PhD from an R1 to get a professor position. I got a nice email from the president when he reviewed my case, that was good. But these are all the very schools that are replacing their tenure-track faculty with adjuncts on a wholesale level, so that limited number of jobs is getting smaller while the pressure to perform is growing each year. Certainly by the second visit. 40% of my current department colleagues previously held a TT or tenured position I used to be of a mind that it would be bad for us to create NTT lines for exactly the second-class citizen concern (something I also experienced at an R1). I am FWIW, grad school was a million times more stressful, anxiety-inducing, and awful than the TT was for me. a tenure-track at a community college (in a blue state with strong union and state employee provisions), and a VAP at an R1 regional campus. So, a few questions: There are another 250 or so institutions that might be called research driven, where teaching doesn't matter at hiring. Our HR and attorneys had to consult with the R1's people about the proper procedures; a As a Ph. 35” sources: 34. Currently, I'm a tenured professor at an R2 -- that was/is trying to be an R1 and thus focuses on imitating R1s rather than being a rockstar R2, but I've received an offer from an R1. If you widen the selection . At my R1 this is discussed in faculty meeting during hiring deliberations fairly regularly. However, I've heard that other R1's basically make tenure decisions on the basis of whether someone has become a Hello! I recently accepted a tenure-track job as an assistant professor at an R1 on the east coast US. The tenure breakdown is separately negotiated for each person in my department. This gives the ratio you've asked about at 11. I am up for tenure this year and have a good chance of getting approved (have several strong publications and over $800k in federal grants NSF/NIH), but the problem is that I am constantly thinking of moving to another institution because I feel really underpaid. We didn't consider anyone without at least one A to A- level publication. Princeton and Yale, for specific examples, have a reputation for giving tenure to very few tenure-track faculty, and instead hiring many of their tenured faculty with immediate tenure by recruiting them from other schools. Generic advice columns about earning tenure and promotion offer some useful tips but they often fail to capture the nature of faculty work and expectation so often found at small liberal arts colleges (SLACs). At research-intensive universities in the United States, eligible faculty must generally excel in research, teaching and service in order to receive tenure. Speaking very generally, the expectations are 2x-3x higher at an R1. I was a “slam dunk” when I earned tenure at my state R2 many years ago. Progressing from postdoctoral training to a STEM faculty appointment at a Research Intensive Institution (RII) is a daunting transition, and may be especially challenging to those who have followed a less-than The town where the tenure-track position is located is not a big or exciting city, so the move would purely be for career advancement toward my long-term goal. Almost every other search was canceled until further notice or 2021 due to corona. Engineering at a large public R1 in the US. Many people don't get tenure and their careers are effectively over after five years. I got a negative recommendation at the department level after a lengthy back and forth. Dept chair said salary can't move. Show that you will succeed at the place where you're applying and not just the place you are now. I would never have been competitive for a tenure-track R1 job, but was well-suited to their teaching track role. I've told my advisor and committee that I see myself as an academic at an R1. The students at the private R1 where I went to grad school were well-prepared, but more ambitious than intellectual, and very entitled. I usually published two manuscripts per year and got research grants about $300 K as a PI or Co-PI. IAMA faculty member in Engineering at mid-tenure review, and would like to answer questions about finding a TT job, and what life is like at an R1 University. fnudetg vshzzbi qhr xnjnbvyxa wnwfwx egurji uylf pqih tlrdlz twmeuo